Q&A: Work/Women in Progress Creates Community For Women and Nonbinary Folks, Sparking Earnest Conversation on Gender Equality in the Music Industry
THE FIGHT FOR GENDER EQUALITY IN MUSIC IS AN ONGOING BATTLE — that affects every corner of the industry. Focusing on the world of audio engineering, WIP is an organization working to create “a community-centered safe space for women and non-binary artists across the music industry in which they can share their art and have real conversations about the process of music creation.” The organization was founded by Tess Greenham in collaboration with Jill Pennington and producer/songwriter/mix engineer Yáng Tan. In creating WIP, they hope to connect women and non-binary folks with top engineers through collaboration and conversations. Further, they host song contests with prizes such as free mixing and mastering from high-level industry professionals.
“We believe that mixing and mastering are a crucial part of the music creation process,” WIP explains. “We want to provide an open door to artists who want to connect with engineers who can help them discover how the magic of a professionally dialed-in mix and master can help bring a song to its full potential.” Starting in July, WIP has expanded their prize pack to include a production session prize with the brand new WIP Producer Collective; a group of eight extremely talented producers who specialize in different genres, ranging from alt-pop and hip-hop to country. This means that no matter the winner's genre, WIP will have a producer to best suit each artist.
Their producer collective consists of FINGY, Kate Linné Malone, Charlotte Reed, Jess Kallen, Sophie Edwards, Sierra Sparrow, Celia Bolgatz, Jillian Lavin. If you’re interested in more details, reach out to submissions@clearlightmastering.com.
Read below to hear more about the organization, their motivation, and their work, as Luna sat down with founding WIP member Greenham.
LUNA: What conversations or events led to the creation of Women In Progress?
GREENHAM: WIP essentially came from a conversation during Women’s History Month 2022 between myself, my manager at the time… and my dad, who I work with — he's also a mastering engineer, and he taught me everything I know! We were trying to figure out what we could do to lend a helping hand to any and all of the extremely talented and hard-working women and non-binary folks we work with within the industry. Initially, we thought, “Oh, maybe we can give them a discount on masters this month.” But we wanted to do something a little bigger, a little more lasting, something more than just offering a discount for one month. We wanted to give back to the music community that has been so good to us. An engineer is only as successful as the artists she works with. The artists make our careers, and so if a successful artist hires you to master their project, your career can take off too, the whole team moves up together. That’s one of the really cool things about this job. We’ve learned this first-hand, so we really felt like there was a giving back that needed to happen. We know so many talented, hardworking, and kind women and non-binary artists who are trying to weave themselves into the fabric of the industry, and it's hard. We consistently see them get fewer opportunities than their male counterparts.
So we wanted to help make some connections between artists with engineers [who] they might not be able to afford otherwise. It seems to me that mixing and mastering are the first things that go out the door if there's no budget. In these cases, oftentimes someone’s producer will just mix and master their song, which is totally fine, and I'm not here to shit on anyone who's doing that. But we wanted to show people that there's also magic and power to having your music professionally mixed and mastered by people who have trained very hard for a long time to be proficient in these job roles. So we wanted to attempt to bridge that gap a little bit. It also was brought to my attention that some artists who have tried to work with top engineers, most of [whom] are men, have had negative experiences, or there was very little communication and little-to-no back and forth, which is absolutely necessary when collaborating on a song or album! The vibe is just kind of like, “Well, here's your master. Good luck. ” I think this is quite common, and probably leaves a bad taste in people’s mouths about mixing and mastering. But not all engineers are like this!
That's one of the things that my dad and I, at our mastering company Clearlight Mastering, pride ourselves on — we're very collaborative with our clients, we want to have a conversation, and we want to hear their thoughts on the master. So I wanted to carry that philosophy over into WIP as well, and just have honest and productive conversations with people about the music-making process.
WIP Founder & Mastering Engineer Tess Greenham
LUNA: Could you describe some of the financial barriers that go into writing and producing a song, from start to finish?
GREENHAM: I'll be honest, as a mastering engineer, I don't fully know all the hidden costs and fees of creating a record from start to finish and then onwards. But I know that it can be very costly to hire good producers and top mixing and mastering engineers. Then there are the costs associated with having a manager — you usually have to give them 15%-20%, and publicists and lawyers sometimes take a percentage as well, if you’re on a label, you have that problem to deal with. There are costs associated with going on tour and getting merch made. I’m sure there are more. I think the finances are unpredictable to a certain extent and are generally just really difficult to navigate. We’re just a bunch of creative types, you know? Not historically the most financially stable of the bunch. There's also the cost of living in cities like LA and New York, where a lot of the music industry stuff is happening, which makes it difficult for artists to live and pay bills and afford to make music. If one has to work a full-time job, it’s hard to then find the time and energy to be creative as well. There’s very little government funding and not a lot of union support. So it's a problem for sure.
LUNA: Great point! How do you think women and nonbinary people outside of the music industry can support women and nonbinary musicians, songwriters, producers, engineers, managers, etc?
GREENHAM: There are a lot of organizations people can donate to; Women's Audio Mission, The Union of Musicians and Allied Workers, She Is The Music, Girls Behind the Rock Show, Book More Women, and so many more. There's Emily Lazar’s organization We Are Moving The Needle, Emily is another really talented woman mastering engineer. WAMTN offers scholarships and hosts programs that teach women [and gender-expansive] people how to mix. There's the Amplify Arts Project — I'm actually on the board for Amplify. They host a summer camp for young girls where they teach them how to write, produce, and engineer their own music. If you do a quick Google search you will find a ton of organizations that are doing incredibly important work. We also wrote an article on the WIP Blog about 10 organizations you can support! Fostering a safe community is so important. I think that one of the reasons there are fewer women and non-binary people in the music industry is that there are fewer safe spaces for them to learn, ask questions, and create where people aren't going to be condescending or dismissive in a way that affects their creativity. I mean, creativity is such a vulnerable thing, and I think it's probably really hard to access it if someone's being a dick.
I think that there's also a lot of power to knowing what's going on and calling it out for what it is. Only 2.8% of the producers on the Billboard Hot 100 for the last 10 years were women or non-binary people. The numbers are just staggering. So I think knowing that and then actively supporting women and non-binary creators and professionals is important — going to their shows, buying their merch, listening to their music, putting them on playlists, subscribing to people's Patreon, and plain just showing up for them.
LUNA: How can women or nonbinary people in positions of power within the music industry be better advocates for those just starting in the industry or struggling to be respected?
GREENHAM: It's hard for me to say what people in positions of power are doing or not doing exactly. I will say, I think, similar to my last answer, there generally needs to be a shift in perspective. We need to give more opportunities and open more doors for women and non-binary creatives and professionals in the industry. If you work in a label, you absolutely need to focus on hiring more women, non-binary folks, and people of color, it’s time. Being as inclusive as possible is really important, and not just to meet your quota. It’s imperative for perspective and the health of our music industry and the artists and professionals in it. For successful artists, this means choosing to work with women and non-binary writers, producers, and engineers, all of [whom] are definitely out there and ready to work. I've mastered a couple of albums recently that were created entirely by women and gender-expansive people, I think there’s such power to that intentional choice, and the finished product is always so unique and beautiful. It makes me really happy to see.
LUNA: I was struck by one part of your org manifesto in particular that read, “Good communication is one of the key ingredients to successful musical collaboration. Women and gender-fluid people have a special talent for communicating their thoughts and feelings in a clear and constructive way. We also possess a unique ability to use our intuition to hear the subtleties of a song in great detail. There is a nuance and specificity to the perspective of women and nonbinary folks that is absolutely essential to building a healthy and inspired music community.”
This is a beautiful way to highlight why women and gender-fluid people are intrinsically skilled artists. What advice do you give to women and gender-fluid people working in the music industry when they start to lose sight of their own greatness and unique skill sets? In other words, how do you believe marginalized people in the music industry can confront people who doubt them?
GREENHAM: Thank you for liking our words. I still struggle with this myself — the imposter syndrome sucks, so it's always interesting to hear what others do to deal. I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I think that a lot of people feel this way. It's a personal journey. This is something I've talked about a lot in therapy — coming to accept that you deserve to be here, you work hard, and you're talented. But that has to be coupled with actually working hard and learning your craft. When I feel insecure about an area of my career, I make sure that I spend as much time as possible trying to hone in on that area and learn as much as I can until that insecurity goes away. Make sure you’re so proficient in what you’re doing that there’s no doubt in your mind that you deserve to be here. It’s helpful also to remember that there’s no rush, you’ll work everything out eventually if you really want to. Take your time and get it right. Something else that can be helpful is remembering that there's something that you excel at that other people wish they were better at. The intention is not to make oneself feel better based on other people's shortcomings but to remind oneself that everyone has special qualities and talents that are unique to them and only to them, and I think remembering that is really important.
But it’s good to stay humble as well. Know your place, be respectful, and listen to people who have been doing this longer than you. But when it’s right, take up space, and don’t be afraid to ask questions. On several occasions I’ve found myself thinking “I don't care if this man thinks I'm stupid, I need to know how this works.” If someone is being unkind, at the end of the day, that’s their problem, and now you know the answer to your question. It’s important to remember that you don’t HAVE to work with anyone, even if it seems like it’ll advance your career. There are some situations where that thinking can be tricky, though. Say the head of a big record label is awful to you. In that situation, it's really hard to say, “Oh, well, I don't want to work with you anyway,” because your success kind of does depend on that relationship working out. I really sympathize with people in those situations. And that’s the power struggle we’re in currently. But to that point, I genuinely think that women and non-binary people are the future of our industry and world. I don't think that people who don't support this mission are going to make it. I think they're going to slowly be phased out. So patience is key. Remember your good qualities and remember that you deserve to be here, and pair that with working hard and being humble. That’s my advice. Sounds easy, right?
Finally, it’s important to surround yourself with other women and non-binary people and not worry so much about the people who suck — pay a lot more attention to the people who are supporting you and foster those relationships. This has been really helpful for me, developing my female friendships in the industry and just making sure that I'm reaching out and connecting. It can be hard, but it is extremely rewarding. WIP has been an amazing way to connect with other women and non-binary folks for me, and I hope that it has been and continues to be for others as well.
LUNA: Yeah, they're not your competitors, they're your supporters.
GREENHAM: Especially [since] the engineering world is [so] male dominant. I hang out with men a lot. So every time I hang out with a woman, I'm like, “Oh, wow, this is really refreshing.”
LUNA: Why now? Why is your organization, WIP, so necessary for this stage of the music industry, and how do you see it growing in the next year or so?
WIP’s Mix Engineer Yáng Tan
GREENHAM: We have so many ideas on the table. One thing that we want to make happen by the end of the year is a showcase with our incredible WIPs of the month. Hopefully, we can make that happen by the end of 2023/the beginning of 2024. My goal is to get to a place where we can pay the performers well for these showcases, that’s important to me. There are so many showcases happening here in LA, which is GREAT, I’m so happy to see that live music is BACK. Unfortunately, not all of them are able to pay performers well, if at all, so I would love to be able to offer that to our artists. But live music is so important, and I think connecting with people in person is essential, especially since the pandemic. Everything is so online. I personally work with so many people that I have never met, but I email them at least once a week. So we want to do what we can to encourage personal connections as much as possible. We’re also building a database of women and non-binary creatives and professionals in the industry — from songwriters, producers, various kinds of engineers, instrumentalists, but also photographers, graphic designers, and managers. We want people to be able to reference this when they’re building their team for their next song/album so we can hear more projects that are made exclusively by women and non-binary folks. The hope is to fill this database with independently-working creatives who want to expand their network and meet new people. So that's what we're working on right now, hoping to launch this fall. I think it will be a radical resource.
Aside from that, there are many ideas in the works, but those are the big ones we’re working on at the moment. In general, we are eager to partner with brands that make gear; microphones, speakers, instruments, guitar pedals, recording interfaces, etc. to offer physical prizes during some months. For the last few months we’ve been working on ourselves; focusing on the contest, expanding our team, making connections, trying to get funding, brainstorming ideas for the future, and generally just trying to set WIP up to be as beneficial as possible for as many people as possible. We're talking to some really cool artists on our blog, making Spotify playlists, and lots of awesome things. If it even just helps connect two people, I'm happy.
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