Q&A: SMUT’s Shoegaze Flame Thrives on Collaboration and Experiences
IT’S ALWAYS A PLEASURE — to hear music that sounds both effortless and subsequently polished, almost as if it comes to the artists naturally. This obviously varies from genre to genre and artist to artist, but when you find yourself nestled into the niche crevice of shoegaze-inspired pop music, the laid-back approach is often the most sought after. For Chicago-based group SMUT, their inflammatory emotion and antiquated approach toward the genres not only harness that desired sonic texture but also the brevity of an ensemble that cares deeply about the context of their tunes.
SMUT features the fresh talent of vocalist Tay Roebuck, bassist Bell Cenower, guitarists Sam Ruschman and Andrew Min, and drummer Aidan O’Connor. They’ve taken on nationwide tours with bands such as Bully, Nothing, Swirles, and most recently Wavves. They recently released How the Light Felt on Bayonet Records, further cementing the vibrational potential of their 2020 EP, Power Fantasy, with prowess.
Luna sat down virtually with the band ahead of the album’s release. Read below as SMUT talks about bringing their independent experiences into a collaborative song, touring and learning from other bands, working with a legendary UK producer, and audiences’ revered love for what they can accomplish together.
Photo by Ezra Saulnier
LUNA: As a band, what is the process of bringing in your individual experiences and talents while also balancing them with everyone else's, and reaching a middle ground through the music?
CENOWER: I think we're a very collaborative band. Sam or Andrew has come to the group in the past and been like, “I've got this guitar part” and we'll say, “Oh, that sounds like a Goo Goo Dolls song.” Or… I've sent the song “Cath…” by Death Cab for Cutie and been like, “I think we should write a song like this.” Initially, a lot of music is just imitating your favorite artists. But I think because there are five of us and it's so thoroughly collaborative, our own personal influences kind of mix it all up so well that you can't tell.
MIN: Yeah… Nobody has ever written a full song by themselves. We all just write our own parts for each song, and that kind of keeps it from staying in one lane.
CENOWER: And sometimes each other's parts.
LUNA: Is having a lot of versatility in your music and style something that you enjoy? It’s almost like you have these various musical cards up your sleeves.
MIN: Yes, for sure — that's something that's important to me personally. My favorite artists and bands are the ones that take a lot of risks, and their albums can go from lots of different genres or different styles over their career and even within an album. That's just something that I look for when I listen to bands.
ROEBUCK: Everyone in our band, when you are bringing your song or your part of a song to the table, it's with the intention and knowledge that it's going to transform into something else. So I think that is a huge benefit to us. I think and hope that all of us like the experimental quality of it, being like, “Here's this thing that I made that kind of sounds like this,” and then maybe Sam will come in and be like, “But I think we should put a trip-hop beat over it.” And then Belle might come in and be like, “I want to do a Smith’s bass line.” And then it's going to turn into something completely different. I think that lends itself to hopefully a unique sound.
O’CONNOR: There is that variety between all the different parts and all the different songs but there's still that through line of all our personalities and how we all gel together, and I think that's what's so cool about being in a band like this because when it all comes together, it really is something completely different … its own thing.
LUNA: I know that you got one of the songs on your album produced by Stephen Street (The Cranberries, Blur, The Smiths), and that’s a huge deal!
MIN: We freaked out!
ROEBUCK: Andrew and I were trying to figure out a producer for the album before we recorded it. And I think Andrew and I were talking and we were just like, “Let’s just email Stephen Street; let's just try it and see what happens,” and we couldn't believe he actually responded.
Like, same day. We couldn’t afford him — he's got iconic producer rates. So there was some conversation about, I don't know, selling our organs, selling our eggs to pay for it. But ultimately, you know, we just said screw it. This is such a cool opportunity. We got to have him on at least one song. I think — don't quote me on this, but quote me on saying “don't quote me on this” — we might be the first American band he's worked with.
LUNA: They got back to you really quickly and were clearly enthusiastic to work with you. What was that like? I’m also curious if you guys had a conversation with him about your musical careers. This man has been in rooms with people like Morrissey in their early stages and the nuance he has must be insane.
MIN: It’s very validating.
ROEBUCK: We didn't have extensive conversations with him. It was like pretty much exclusively about the song. But I will say that every compliment received by him has burned into my memory and I ascended to a higher plane of existence immediately. And, I don't know, my ego might never recover from that.
CENOWER: Yeah, I think I cried a little bit. Yeah. Because he's just, I mean, even beyond the fact that he's just worked with some of our favorite artists… I think we all sort of revere him as an individual. It's just as special as Morrissey. Or, like, Blur. Yeah, for sure. It's just really cool.
MIN: I’m still not over it; I still think about it when I’m bummed. I'm like, “Yeah, but at least Stephen Street is on our album.”
LUNA: People often overlook how important things like that are. How do you take those compliments in stride but also do your own thing? When things get tough, you can look back on the good moments, but how do you maintain determination when making music?
MIN: Well, I mean, I think a big part of that is just the fact that it's a band. It's not like there's one main person who hired a bunch of people to play music with them. You know, it makes it a lot easier when it's your close friends. We're doing it together. Yeah, I think that is more of a driving force or something that's [more] helpful to me than anything else.
ROEBUCK: Yeah, being joined in the struggle but also being able to share the reward with someone.
RUSCHMAN: Everyone's always got an idea that they're ready to bring to the songwriting table.
MIN: If anyone’s stuck, just don’t worry about it! Someone else is there to pick up the slack.
CENOWER: I also think … psychologically, trying to make it in music is such an uphill battle and so soul-sucking at times. I know that over the years, there's definitely been some of us who are just, like, down and out, thinking that it's never gonna happen. But then there are other people in the band who can sort of carry that belief and that faith for you. So… if you sort of rotate the optimism between five people, you can go for a long time.
LUNA: Speaking more to the music and the sonic versatility that I think you have a strong grasp on, each of your projects have varying sounds and influences coming out of them. How do you sequence your live shows? It feels like there is so much you can do with playing off expectations, melody, tempo — there are a lot of factors there.
ROEBUCK: I've actually thought about this a little bit. And maybe this is good, I don't know. But I was thinking about it in terms of like… We were talking about bands that we would want to open for. It almost feels a little difficult sometimes because I think we can sound like a lot of things. But it's almost a blessing because I feel like when you have four or five distinct, different sounds, you can almost cater your shows for different audiences. Even on the last tour we went on, if the audience is a lowkey sort of laid-back audience, you know that to lean into, like the chill songs and the ones that have a more moody, dreamy force behind them, where[as] if you have an audience that's riled up and ready to go, we're gonna bring out the [rock] songs. So I think it makes for hopefully an interesting live show that I think definitely varies from actual show to show, and we've heard that from people who have seen us in multiple cities… Last time, it was so “this” and this time it was so bad, but not in a bad way.
LUNA: It’s almost like you have to take that opportunity. Why not surprise people and accommodate whatever vibes are in that room because, especially when you’re playing smaller venues, it’s very unpredictable. I know you just went on tour with Wavves, which is awesome. How did that come about?
MIN: We tried to figure that out for a while because we had no idea — we just got out. We got a cold email. Basically, it was out of nowhere that [he] was like, “Hey, you guys want to do this?” I guess he had just become familiar with our songs from wherever. And they hit us up directly because he liked it.
ROEBUCK: The solution to the mystery was that they have toured with Beach Fossils. And Beach Fossils runs our label … Bayonet. So I think that the Beach Fossil boys showed the Wavves boys us a little while ago.
CENOWER: Yeah, we've been really fortunate with all of the … longer tours that we've done. The headlining band has just heard us and personally wanted us on the tour. It's a super great feeling but also I feel really lucky at times because they just heard us on Bandcamp.
MIN: Yeah, like we didn't have a booking person until this year, like a couple months ago. We were just running on pure luck and goodwill.
LUNA: When touring as a supporting act, what have you taken away from these experiences? In a sense, you’re almost shadowing a bigger band, seeing how they operate on a larger scale.
CENOWER: We all know and have discussed that when we get to a certain point, we want to headline a tour. Paying it forward and just treating those people with kindness, like, really give people their fair shot. Because I feel like all the bands that we've toured with, they've really gone out of their way to befriend us, hanging out with us and [nurturing] us and [making] sure that we weren't getting screwed over by venues or anything like that. And I feel like they didn't have to do that. But it was so nice that they did.
ROEBUCK: We've heard horror stories from other bands about bad tour companies and bad tour rosters, and we've been super blessed to not have that. So I would agree with Belle … everyone be polite and nice and as punctual as you can be. Be a nice, happy, friendly co-worker and you're going to have a good however many weeks on the road with those people.
LUNA: Going back to the music again, I know the song “Let Me Hate,” on the new album, is very personal to you. Dealing with real-life trauma in a song gives you the opportunity to take feelings and thoughts outside of your own void and put them into the world. What was that process like of building something creatively off your experiences but making it a song that everybody contributes to? The balancing act of something that is so personal to you to something that is also now personal with the band.
ROEBUCK: It was super hard. For the entire album, there are themes of “Let Me Hate” because a lot of it has to do with the death of my little sister. So when that happened, I was already in this band. It was kind of a different version of this band. But it could have put a halt to everything. But I personally felt that … it was my only outlet, in a way. Eventually I got a therapist, but at first I didn’t really know what to do with this and with these feelings and with my world. So we just kept making songs. And every song just became about something very specific. It was super hard. The first one was “Janeway,” that's going to be on this album. And that was probably the hardest hurdle to get over, letting people add stuff, because it was one of those things that we talked about earlier, where you bring something to the table and you know it's going to change. I really wanted the meaning to stay the same. So that was an internal struggle that I had with it.
But over the last few years, it's definitely gotten easier. Everything's changed in such a way that these songs are obviously very personal to me. Even when we recorded them, but when we perform them it almost feels like you're opening up an old wound over and over again. But having … essentially a family, it's a second family because you're so close-knit with the people you make this art with. [Having them] ;iterally beside you and behind you makes it cathartic in a way. It feels good. Now, it didn't at first, but we played that song on tour and there were a couple instances where I would see people getting emotional during that song and [they] would talk to me afterwards, and that makes it worth it to have written them, if that makes sense.
LUNA: Yeah, it definitely makes sense. And I also want to say, sorry for your loss, but also thanks for sticking it out. That's a huge hurdle to overcome, and hearing that it has had those cathartic reactions from people in the audience is a really beautiful thing. Seeing the song’s purpose connect so deeply with someone, what was that like for you, especially for something that was so personal?
ROEBUCK: It was honestly amazing. I remember seeing someone getting a bit weepy while we were singing that song, and I started getting emotional watching them. So I had to look away, but I got off the stage and talked to people… A lot of the ones about that particular thing are straightforward but are open enough to interpretation that people can relate to … anything bad happening to them it seems, or just trying to get over something or going to therapy or what have you — where, when they're talking to me about it, it feels good. Because I think those feelings inside of yourself are very lonely. But if you're feeling them when listening to something or watching something or experiencing some kind of art there's like a sense of community there.
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