Q&A: A Conversation With MICHELLE Ahead of Their Third Album ‘SONGS ABOUT YOU SPECIFICALLY’
AFTER COLLABORATING ON AN ALBUM ABOUT GROWING UP IN NEW YORK IN 2018 — singer-songwriters Julian Kaufman, Sofia D’Angelo, Charlie Kilgore, Emma Lee, Layla Ku, and Jamee Lockard came together to form the collective that is known as MICHELLE. The native New Yorkers had run in similar circles for years prior to forming. They released their debut album, HEAT WAVE, in 2018 and followed with their successful sophomore album, AFTER DINNER WE TALK DREAMS, in 2022.
The band has had a busy summer, opening for Still Woozy on tour while also gearing up for the release of their third album, SONGS ABOUT YOU SPECIFICALLY. The album, set for release on September 27, explores sounds inspired by genres such as funk, synthpop and shoegaze.
Luna spoke to the group on Zoom to explore their pre-album release feelings, who they’ve been listening to while on tour, and combatting “lizard brain” while collaborating with each other over the last six years. Read the interview below.
LUNA: I know you guys started working together as a band in 2018 — how did you start making music together? Can you summarize how you all met?
LOCKARD: Basically, we all came together to write our first album, Heat Wave. Julian and Charlie had the idea of writing an album about growing up in New York with fellow native New Yorkers. All of the singer-songwriters know either Julian or Charlie. I met Charlie my freshman year of college. Layla and Charlie went to elementary and high school together. Sof, Emma, and Julian all kind of just met in the New York music scene.
LUNA: Your third album comes out in September, and I’m sure the feelings you have surrounding this release differ from the previous two. What thoughts and feelings have you been experiencing leading up to this release?
KAUFMAN: I feel like, whether we like it or not, the second album was really big for us. A lot of our fanbase associate themselves with it very strongly. A lot of what we have to deal with is making an album [where] we ask ourselves, “Does it cater to the fanbase we cultivated with our second album?” Maybe it doesn't, but does it cater to us? Maybe more so. Trying to navigate the difference of do you play for the fans, do you play for yourself, or do you find something in the middle — and that’s difficult.
LUNA: 100%. I feel like the third album people release is always about trying to find that leeway between catering to the current/newer audiences, but also making sure you feel satisfied yourself. Who are each of your favorite artists? Is it people that inspire your own music or do they differ from you in any way? Just anyone you’ve been listening to lately.
LOCKARD: I love Victoria Monet and Charli XCX.
KU: I’ve been listening to a lot of Neil Young lately. And Qendresa, I really like her.
D’ANGELO: We had a long drive from Toronto to Boston and I started it by listening to Neil Young live at Massey Hall in 1971, and I cried like a baby in the back of the van. I also revisited Mac DeMarco, another Canadian with a crazy body of work. I was listening to his album … in the shower last night, and that album did so much for me and my development of taste, especially when I was learning to take risks as a songwriter. I’ve also been listening to Chappell Roan.
KAUFMAN: I agree on Mac DeMarco. I think he’s one of those artists that’s genuinely good and not just hyped/social media–fied. Two other people I’ve been listening to is Mustard, especially his new album. Someone we work with also worked on the album, and it’s just excellent. I love [“Back of My Mind”] featuring Ty Dolla $ign. I also have to shout out Still Woozy — man’s a total legend for letting us open for him on tour. Every album he’s put out is fire; he hasn’t missed yet and he’s only growing. I love him so much.
KILGORE: In the van lately I’ve been listening to a lot of The Avalanches, who I really like, and also a lot of Meshell Ndegeocello, a bassist–singer-songwriter. Playing bass on tour and listening to someone where the bass is really loud, better than I’m ever going to be able to get it, is really helpful for me.
LEE: I’m revisiting Forth Wanderers. I realized there’s three songs I really like from when I first heard them years ago that I was listening to on repeat, but they have so much more music than I had listened to. They’re not a band anymore, but it’s exciting to feel like they have new music because it’s new to me. Also, lots of Charli XCX.
LUNA: Since you guys are all collaborators but also friends, how do you mitigate creative differences with each other and stay in sync?
KAUFMAN: You just gotta know what everyone’s roles are. Not everyone’s supposed to be the one to give the note on choreo, not everyone’s the person who’s supposed to give that mix note, and knowing when it’s not your place. It’s very important so nobody has to tell you that instead. If I’m working with Charlie and Charlie’s working on a bass part, maybe I’ll give him one or two notes here and there, but it’s not my bass part — I gotta let him dominate that. I could pretend like I’m a better bassist and try to write the bass part but it’s not going to be better and it’s gonna end up ruining everything. You know what I mean, Charlie?
KILGORE: Yeah, I also think you have to know when you have an idea/something you want, you have to be able to tell in that moment how badly you want it. If I have an idea and I don't want it that badly but I want it a little bit just because it's my idea, then my instinct is going to be to push for that. But am I pushing for it because I actually want it and I think it makes what we're working on better? Or because it's my idea and I want my idea to be in there? I think you have to be able to bird's eye view and see yourself in third person a little bit, and go, “I don't actually want this as bad as lizard brain thinks that it does” or, “I actually really want this and despite all of the things that it may derail I actually am going to push for it.”
KAUFMAN: And then on the other side, it's kind of like if someone gives you an idea or gives you a note it's really important to be like, am I saying no to this because I hate that person or because I don't think it's their right to give an idea, or am I saying no to this because it's a bad idea? It’s being able to look at things a little more at face value, you know? If you get a note is it just like, “No fuck that I won't listen to what you have to say” or is it “Oh wait, maybe that's a helpful note” and being able to take it. I think a lot of it is navigating what Charlie said very well, the lizard brain emotional responses that immediately come up when someone gives you a note or an idea.
LEE: I think it’s helped over time — or I’ve found this helpful and other people I’ve talked to in the band have as well — that MICHELLE’s become an entity outside of our personal. In terms of making creative decisions, especially as six very different people, having understanding that MICHELLE, the music, the creative direction, and all these things have become their own thing where they don't necessarily have to align absolutely the way it might if you were a solo artist. I think that has helped make decisions. It doesn’t mean there’s a lack of care, more just “This isn’t exactly how I would brand or sound” if it was a solo artist. Mixing and compromising, making different choices, is what comes with serving this thing that is MICHELLE, not solely serving your own ego.
D’ANGELO: MICHELLE is greater than the sum of its parts. MICHELLE is an entity that is bigger than the six of us individually. That being said, there have been many instances where all six of us, no question, easily are like, “That’s the song,” or “That has to go on the album.” We look at a picture, and say that’s the cover. Sometimes the art just shows itself.
LUNA: Exactly, 100% agree. The last question I have for you guys: In previous interviews you’ve discussed how you all grow with each other as this group progresses. What do you believe are the main differences you see in yourself now versus the start of the band?
KAUFMAN: I’ll give a cheeky answer. One of the main differences I see in myself is the amount of synthesizers and audio gear I own. Since the beginning of the band, the amount and dollar amount that I’ve invested in band gear has ballooned to a figure that not only embarasses myself, but might embarrass my family.
KILGORE: It’s a stain on the lineage. For me, I’ve become better at what I do, hopefully, and I’m less of an asshole, hopefully. I know that when I need to be an asshole, it can be in service of a better idea than it would’ve been at the beginning when I was just throwing it around everywhere.
LUNA: It’s like being an asshole with taste.
KILGORE: Those are things that I hope for, because I’m not an objective judge of those things. I’m both the haver of the taste I’m talking about and the asshole, so (fingers-crossed) hopefully!
D’ANGELO: I’d like to think that I’ve gotten better at sharing, because I’m an only child but I’ve suddenly in the last six years gained five siblings–and it is the craziest experience. Further, I think that my style has evolved–both because my individual life has changed because of this band. When MICHELLE is not MICHELLE-ing, that has an impact on the way I live my life as Sofia. That has influenced my style a lot. Also, what we have to do on stage when I have to present myself as a member of this band, both on stage and off stage when actively MICHELLE-ing.
KILGORE: Somehow since we formed the band, I’ve also gotten a quarter of an inch shorter.
LUNA: [jokingly] How does that even happen? I guess you shrink as you grow older, but I feel like that usually happens later.
KAUFMAN: It’s a medical miracle!
KILGORE: Yeah, I’m one of a kind.
LUNA: I wanna grow at least a quarter of an inch taller. That’s my goal.
KAUFMAN: I need to grow another four inches, honestly.
KILGORE: Julian, you’re like six foot a thousand.
D’ANGELO: I think four inches is tough. But Izzy, I think if you believe, it can happen.
LEE: I think we’ve all grown in the way of just understanding what [MICHELLE] all means. Where we are now is so different from where we started. We’re still the same people, but everyone’s grown. Individually, everyone has grown so much — especially in the past year. I’m repeating that to myself so often all the time. When we started, nobody had any ideas. This is such a broken record but nobody knew what the band was going to be, if it was going to be a band.
At the beginning, I was personally comfortable in other stages or other ways but with these high stakes, with all these eyes, this music and this group, I’ve learned to feel more comfortable, and I’m still learning how I wish to present, perform, and do justice to this project. I’m solidifying this for myself, just because in the beginning it was very hard to be on stage in this type of group, but I think I understand how now.
LOCKARD: At the beginning of MICHELLE, I didn’t think of myself as a songwriter. I had only written maybe three songs prior to Heat Wave. I remember Charlie telling me the idea of gathering different songwriters from New York. I didn’t even register that he was asking me to be a part of the project because I didn’t think of myself as a songwriter — I was very flattered when he did ask. Now, we’ve written so many songs, both in and out of the band, and you write some good ones, you write some bad ones–but now I’m writing songs. So I do think of myself as a songwriter now.
KU: I’ve gained a lot of confidence since the beginning.
CONNECT WITH MICHELLE
