Q&A: Madeleine Mayi Closing Off Sad Girl Summer With New EP 'what happens when it hurts'
NEVER BEING AFRAID TO SHOWCASE HER RAW, HONEST EMOTIONS — the wonderful singer-songwriter Madeleine Mayi is back with another tender project, what happens when it hurts. In this EP, Mayi is going through every distinct type of emotions of an individual going through heartbreak, platonically and romantically.
Hearing what happens when it hurts for the first time is taking a journey through the stages of heartbreak from suffering to accepting the fact of the matter. With each song, Mayi speaks on a different feeling that comes from a place of relatability and genuineness. The first track off the EP, “Lights Out,” reveals an earnest, fierce energy showcasing the anger you feel when someone does you dirty. There’s a complete 180 with the last song off the EP, “for a second,” a beautifully soft number that Mayi states is intended to be open-ended for the listener to explore their own emotions. As an artist, Mayi does not dictate what her songs mean or how an individual should feel while listening to her music. Instead, she encourages and is excited to hear the different interpretations others have on her work, which demonstrates her inclusive artistry.
In her voice, you can feel the weight of each lyric as she sings it in her warmhearted yet powerful delivery. From start to finish, there is intention. Mayi not only demonstrates her mindblowing range but that she continues being a force to be reckoned with when it comes to her sentimental songwriting. She has proved that she can make a song less than two minutes long and still leave a lasting effect on the listener and have them stumped at how the track made them feel. Mayi’s fearlessness in wearing her heart on her sleeve makes her such an important artist in this day where people are wary when showing their vulnerability. She celebrates this in her music and it’s what makes what happens when it hurts so special.
Read below to find out the process and all the ins and outs of Mayi’s EP, what happens when it hurts, the importance of honesty in her creative method, and her recommendations that helped get her creative juices running.
LUNA: Thank you for your time. We're very happy to have you back on Luna! Congrats on the EP what happens when it hurts — I heard it religiously again today and I really do love it. So how are you, with all of this going on right now?
MAYI: I'm good. It's weird. [With] the last project I released, it was February of 2021. And obviously, I don't know, I feel like during the pandemic time just slowed completely for me. My concept of time is just so fucked up. But I feel like it was so long ago since I liked releasing a real project. And so much has changed between the project that I released and now and [it’s] just crazy. So, I don't know, I feel like I'm good. I'm very excited. Ready to open a new chapter. I feel like I'm actually kind of with this EP, like closing a chapter because I released my single “Lights Out” last year on August 18. And then the EP is coming out on August 18 this year. So it's like wrapping the year up [in] a little bow, you know what I mean? So I feel good. I'm excited.
LUNA: How did you decide you wanted these exact five songs in the EP, which, by the way, mesh really well together!
MAYI: I feel like, I don't know (laughs). I released five, four songs this year or something. And I went into the EP kind of differently than I have with any of my other projects. Because I feel like usually when I release a project, I go in with an end, like a full story behind the whole thing. And with this project … it unfolded over such a long time that it occurred to me only like three or four months ago that I was like, “Oh my gosh, all the songs that I've been releasing have a through line.” Like, I should put them all on a project, including one that I'm really excited about on the EP called “best part of us” that has a music video, and it's going to be so fun. But yeah, I feel like I chose the songs just because of the EP title, what happens when it hurts. [It] is the most literal thing … the most literal title that you could ever come up with. Because the thing that ties all the songs together is like… it's a different response … an emotional response to you getting hurt. So it's literally … like this song is what happens when it hurts this way. I feel like they were all just kind of made and then the title brought it all together, I guess. Right?
LUNA: 100% agreed. Which song off the EP would you say perfectly embodies it? If you could pick one.
MAYI: It's hard because they all show such different angles of people's reactions. But I feel like “best part of us” probably does because it’s … probably the most bittersweet. It involves a little bit of saltiness, a little bit of sadness, and a little bit of joking around. So I feel like it kind of captures the essence of it, I guess.
LUNA: The first song off the EP, “Lights Out” — which is a beloved, iconic tune — does it still hold the same emotion from when it was first released back in 2021?
MAYI: I was actually talking about that with my friend the other day ‘cause … that was one of those rare moments where I went into a session and I was feeling a certain way. We came out with the song and I was like, “Oh, yes, I'm so angry.” Like, this is exactly what I wanted to say. And then now, you know, a year has passed, and I don't feel the same way I do about the specific situation that it's about, but I still feel just as connected to the song. Because I have a tendency to get really pissed off when people hurt my feelings. And so I feel like it will always be true. For me, even though a year has passed since that particular situation happened that I wrote the song about originally, I feel like it's a song that describes me very well, in the way where I'm just like, “I'll do anything for my friends.” Like, if you hurt my friends I’ll slap you, if you hurt me, I'm mad. I feel like it definitely still rings true for me, even though obviously as time passes on, you're gonna feel differently about certain relationships and situations and whatnot. But yeah, I don't know if that was very clear.
LUNA: Yes, it's pretty clear (laughs). Your voice in “can't reach me” is amazing. Your range. I was like, “Oh my god,” the fullness in the end… I was shocked! I was like, “Maddie,” like, “Oh my god.”
MAYI: Thank you!
LUNA: Can you speak to us about the process of this song? Lyrically, sonically, anything about it? Because it's insane how good it is.
MAYI: Thank you. Yeah, that song I wrote, similar to that song “for a second,” I was literally sitting at the piano and it all just came out in one stretch. There was no editing really … I mean, there's a bit of it, but not to the extent of most of my other songs. It just kind of all came out at once. And I don't know, it just feels right to yell, sometimes — like you gotta belt it out. I feel like that song was spurred by a very particular friendship, like the breakup that I was going through. And it was like — was and still is — so difficult. And it's weird when you finally admit that you don't want somebody around anymore. You know what I mean? And I feel like it hurts. But it also feels so good. Because it's empowering. You're like, I value myself and like my time too much right? To allow you to keep hurting me. And that's such a painful thing to admit. And I think that's kind of why on that song I needed to let loose a little bit more just because I gotta get it out.
LUNA: “Best part of us”is the new one that you haven't released yet. And yet again, you delivered. So these five songs, like you said, collectively showcase different types of healing and dealing with heartbreak, romantically or platonically. However, to me, I felt like this song kind of showcases a bit of hopefulness and a sense of acceptance from your side, which feels very refreshing. How important is it for you to always showcase your honesty, even though sometimes it can be very difficult to constantly be like, “This is my truth”?
MAYI: Yeah. I think that honestly, one of the only ways that I — I'm not gonna speak for everybody, because everybody heals and changes differently — but one of the only ways that I've actually been able to successfully heal from something is to call myself out. Yeah. And learn from my mistakes, too. Even if I'm going through a situation in a relationship where I feel like someone is hurting me there's still an element of honesty you need to have with yourself … “What have I contributed to this situation?” And like, “How did it get here?” But then with this song … I feel like I'm so hard on myself all the time. Like, even the fact that I just said that. You can see how hard I am on myself.
I feel like I'm always putting guns to my own head again, like, “You need to get better,” like all the time; “You need to constantly grow and change.” And that's great but also at the same time, sometimes you need to just look back and be like, “Wow, I am doing great.” Like, “I have moved on from the situation and I am feeling like an individual who has done a lot of work and I can be proud of that.” And I feel like that song specifically is like a little pat on the back to myself of like, “Hey, you're doing great,” you know, “You're going through it and you're coming out better than you were before.” No one's ever gonna be perfect, obviously. But at least you're trying. Yeah. So I feel like that means so much to me just because when I listen to it even I'm like, “Okay, cool.” So yeah, that was important to me. Give myself a little hug, you know?
LUNA: Yeah, especially now because I feel like it's so easy to point the finger at anybody when something goes wrong, but it's also okay to feel. And like you say in the very first verse, “Of course I’m hurting, better to be honest,” you're like, I'm not fine and you need to hear that. With everything that you might be going through and everyone telling you how you should feel or to go journal and meditate. It's not all that sometimes, which is why I feel this song is so important. Moving on to “SNAP,” which everytime I listen is a big blow to the heart all the time — especially with that chorus line, “stretching thin, we finally snap” — I hate it. I hate it so much. It stings a little. So with this song being about first love, how did it feel to let that off your chest? I'm assuming that was a long time ago, and sometimes it's difficult for people to have those emotions resurface, however for some it's better to let it out. You know, to just get that off.
MAYI: Yeah, it was really weird because my first relationship was … first of all … quite long — it was like three years. And there was so much that happened. And our breakup was good at the beginning. But then it just got really bad over time. I feel like over those three years, there was just way too much for me to unpack… Before “SNAP,” I had never written a song about this person. Ever! I've not even done a draft because I just was so afraid to touch the subject because there was so much that I was afraid — it was all kind of like, come out.
And obviously now, you know, so much time has passed — we broke up when I was 18. So there's a good chunk of time between now and then. So I feel like it was just kind of the perfect time to bring it all back up again. Plus, I started going back to therapy. We started talking about a lot of my childhood and then high school years and stuff and obviously, that relationship was a decent chunk of that time, and a chapter that me and my therapist had to talk through. So it brought all of it back up again, just like, “Oh my god, I forgot how much happened.” Like, I should probably get it out some way or another. So, I mean, it's super weird … I've never written a song that was more truthful because every single thing in the song actually happened — all the details and all the locations were true. That song and “Lights Out” are the only two songs that I released and I was like, “Oh my god, am I going to hear from this person?” “What's the reaction going to be like?” “Is it going to be okay?” Ultimately, I'm an artist.
LUNA: Yeah, fuck it!
MAYI: It’s whatever I want, and I feel like I'm offering a pretty fair perspective. It's not like I'm being like, “You’re evil.” Overall, that song probably involves the most complicated feelings just because of the time that it's about and the amount of honesty that I put into it … but I'm glad I did it because it pushed myself to a level that I'd never reached before as a song.
LUNA: I'm glad you did it too! Last but not least on the EP, you have “for a second,” which is the shortest song off the EP, but it holds so much emotion. Why did you choose this song to end the EP?
MAYI: I think one of my favorite things that is a through line through the two other projects that I've released prior to this is that I like to leave things on kind of a question as opposed to a period or a statement because I feel like it's not my job to tell people how to feel. I just want to propose a bunch of different things that they could potentially feel. And I feel like with this song, it's the most open-ended because the song is kind of about, like, I know that this isn't going to last forever, but maybe I would just like to stay in it anyways and not have to go through the shittiness that ending it is going to be.
I think that the reason that this song is last and so short is because I wrote it all in one. And then I tried to write a second verse, and it was all just so stupid. Because I was like, there's literally nothing else to say other than what I've already said. However long it is, a minute and a half or two minutes, there's nowhere else to go — I already ended it. And everything that needs to be said [is said]. I just like to leave people with a little bit of a question mark so that they can explore their own feelings and what everything that I've said brings up for them. And I felt like that song was perfect — it's kind of mean to do (laughs). A perfect question mark, very open-ended.
LUNA: Yeah, I love that though! What music or other artistic mediums inspired any songs or helped you get out of any artistic ruts you might have been on while creating the EP?
MAYI: There’s definitely this book that I've read a few times. It's called The Accidental Masterpiece. It's very, very cool. I'm pretty sure the guy who wrote it used to be the art critic of the New York Times. I could be wrong. But basically, he wrote this book towards the end of his career there, and it's a bunch of different stories from different artists. And he basically just goes into what art really means and how people who don't pursue art professionally can still have an equally valid or full experience throughout life. It's a really, really good book. The book Big Magic reminded me why I like to do what I do. So those, and then... I don't know, I was definitely really inspired by a lot of a lot of painters who just kind of paint things like… this sounds weird, but paint things as they see it, but not like as it is — like it's from their perspective. Like, this is what the image looks like to them. But it's not necessarily supposed to be like that. This is what the Eiffel tower looks like. It's like, this is what it looks like to me. Okay. And that kind of mindset definitely inspired a lot of my thought process behind it. So yeah, not super specific. But that book is like a game changer. I would highly recommend it!
LUNA: Jotting those recs down (laughs). What do you hope your audience feels and grasp from listening to the EP in its entirety?
MAYI: Kind of tying back to what I was saying with “for a second,” I never really have an intention when it comes to what I want people to feel because usually when I put a project together, I like to include so many different feelings. So really, I just hope that everybody who listens to it can see that there are different songs for them at a different part of their journey, I guess. I didn't make this up to be … the best songs I've ever written all in a row. It's more just that these are different and special for a different thing that you could be going through. And so I kind of hope that everybody finds their favorite song when they first listen to it, and then maybe they listened to it three months later and they really wonder why they don't relate to that song as much anymore but they relate to a different one. Because that's how I feel. Like, whenever I have gone back and listened, I really did do a different one. Because of what's been going on that month for me or whatever. So that's kind of what I hope, I guess — I hope that everybody can see that each song is tailored for a specific thing that you could be feeling, I guess.
LUNA: I guess in a sense you could think of what happens when it hurts kind of like the five stages of grief. Where you have anger, denial, and eventually acceptance, and each song could fall under each one in a way?
MAYI: Yep (laughs). Exactly that!
LUNA: Any exciting or upcoming projects that you'd like to share with us?
MAYI: Yes. So in LA I’ll have a little pre-release show. It's gonna be like a week or so after the project comes out, which is gonna be fun. It's on August 27. I have a really fun project that I'm working on that I like. I think it might be the best idea I've ever had. So far (laughs). So there's a lot of music coming afterwards but I don't have dates.
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