Q&A: Reaching Through Generations With Emotion, Kirby Talks about her New EP 'Sis, He Wasn’t the One'
WITH CONVICTION AND TRUE FEELING — singer-songwriter Kirby talks about the work she does. Last year she released her debut EP, Sis., featuring songs like “Don't Leave Your Girl” and “Velvet,” which was later remixed with Lucky Daye and included in season four of Insecure. Kirby’s voice reminisces with stories about love and astounds in her new EP, Sis, He Wasn't the One, giving the listener a sound “that's more in alignment with where [her] head is now.”
With a career that bolsters writing credits on songs such as “FourFiveSeconds” by Kanye West, Rihanna, and Paul McCartney and “Break Your Heart Right Back” by Ariana Grande, this fall is an exciting time for Kirby as she prepares to release her new EP and tour with Pink Sweat$ and John Legend in North America. Her new singles provide a peek into what to expect not just from the album, but also the tour. “Coconut Oil” for example, is infused with “those live drums … all that energy … just meant to be experienced [live]!”
The emotions are crystal clear when you listen to the voice, lyrics, and sounds Kirby puts on display in all her music, as they prove to be a canvas for the power of her songwriting and stage presence. Read on to learn about music that made her middle school experience, how church has influenced her music process, and what to expect from her new EP and tour this year.
LUNA: Congrats on the new EP! Are you excited?
KIRBY: Yeah. Yeah, I am.
LUNA: And the tour too. Are you excited?
KIRBY: Yeah, I'm so excited and I'm so excited for tour. A little nervous. I was watching John's story yesterday and I was like, “This is much larger than I thought, it’s kind of nerve wracking, but I'm excited.” I'm so grateful.
LUNA: What struck me the first time I listened to your music — it was “Velvet (Remix)” with Lucky Daye — were the words and sound you used to convey an emotion that was familiar to me, but new at the same time. I'd love to know how you decided to get Lucky Daye to join the remix, as well as what was behind the emotion of the original record?
KIRBY: Oh, my gosh. Well, I'll say this: the power of what you say is so important because I started my year off in 2020 with an Instagram post and the caption said, “somebody please tell Lucky Daye let's do a song together.” At the time I had no connection to him. We didn't know we were going to do a song and be on Insecure — none of that stuff. So, manifestation, faith, prayer — all of those things are very real and you have to be so intentional about what you say, because the next thing you know, you'll be living your words. But "Velvet" is kind of the opposite of being intentional. It's more so about being open and that song really just kind of came to me.
I just remember, you know, Homer — my producer, my friend — played the beat and I had never heard something so beautiful. I was so inspired and just wanted to play with the texture of my voice. I'm a big fan of Britney Howard from Alabama Shakes and I love how she attacks her record. I felt like I wanted to be a gangster female. I saw myself, like in a fur, on a velvet couch with a fro and just kind of sexy, you know? But also I'm using this androgynous voice because I think, in that song, you don't know [who’s singing]. "Is this a a guy with a high-pitched voice, or is this a girl with a lower voice?"
I had so much fun playing with colors on that record, and I can't take too much credit for it because the production really inspired the whole entire top line. And when Issa Rae heard the song she fell in love with it, and it was her idea to get Lucky Daye on it. So it was one of those things where I said it at the top of the year, not knowing that the provisions would be made for it, and it's just awesome.
LUNA: When writing songs, do you think your approach to songwriting has changed over the years?
KIRBY: It is so different. And I want to go back to how I used to write, because I was listening to a song the other day, and it was just so personal. It was like, "We don't have to fall in love, just walk.” And I think I was a little green, you know, back then when I wrote — it was just so honest. It literally felt like I was in my diary. I feel like I still carry that same transparency, but I try to challenge myself on how to say it.
But it's something about just being straight to the point, like in the song we just had go viral called "Teach me How to Twerk.” I was like, "Why are people so connected to this song? I'm so confused.” But I think the bottom line is it feels authentic; it feels true and it's just hella relatable. As soon as you turn the record on, you know what I'm speaking of. So I'm going to challenge myself to really go back to that place — that simple vulnerability — and just see how the people respond to it ’cause I miss writing songs that make me want to cry a little bit, you know? I'm ready to go back into my space when it comes to that.
LUNA: Do you think that writing love songs is a theme that you would always go back to?
KIRBY: It is, you know, and I think I had such a movie view on love. And I think now when I write about love, it comes from a realer place. I think what's actually easier to write about than love is like, “Bitch, I'm in my bag!” — talking your shit, for lack of a better phrase. Like, I couldn't really do the “I'm doing great without you. What you gon to do without me,” but I think it's really a challenge to write about love in a hopeful way that doesn't feel corny. Because it's like, dang, how have we not heard this in a love song?
I love writing about love, but I think at this point it’s “How can I write about love in a way that we've never heard before?” As easy as sometimes people say it is to write about love, I think sometimes it's easy to write the cliche love, but to really paint the picture of a relationship it takes a high level of vulnerability, because it challenges you to open your heart and say, “What do I really feel right now about love?” And I love to write about love when I'm actually in this space, you know what I'm saying? Like, when I'm actually in that space of being a bit in love. So I try not to write about love from a place of movie-esque-inspired fairy tales. I really want to go deep and be real with it.
LUNA: That’s right, because I think when you're being vulnerable, there can be a lot of contradictions that you don't want to admit.
So you released your EP Sis. at the beginning of 2020, and then the pandemic happened, and it's still happening. So what was it like moving through that year and a half to now releasing another EP in fall 2021?
KIRBY: Um, you know, I worked out a lot. I was talking to my best friend. I was like, “Girl, we were really in shape!” When I'm telling you yoga became my best friend during the freaking quarantine. I was like downward doggin’ out here. Fucking all of it. Like, I felt so flexible, which is so awesome, and I kind of lost it.
But on a personal level, I would say that I really did lean into self-care. It sucks, you know — we got a lot of things canceled, like the first show was canceled. We didn't have the opportunity to tour the record. But I would say in exchange for that (because you gotta think so many things happened last year with George Floyd, we were protesting in downtown), I think it did give me an opportunity to really work on not only self-care, but having tough conversations where nobody could run. I remember last year I worked with a lot of white male producers and with every producer that I worked with, we had hour-long conversations about racism, which I feel like would have never happened had the world been open.
So yeah, it sucks. I didn't get to do, you know, shows, to tour my first record. But we got this huge tour coming up and I'm super grateful for it. And I think for me, it made me a more conscious artist about what it is I need to write about because quarantine forced you to sit down and say, “Okay, what matters? What really, really matters?” So for me it was definitely a little bit disappointing, but in exchange for not being able to go out on the road, I got to do some type of inner work and outer work regarding my personal life.
LUNA: And do you think those changes are something that people are going to hear on the new album? What other things can people expect from it?
KIRBY: I think people heard it, especially in “Superpower.” I feel like that, to me, was such a pivot for us. And I feel like the production has grown; I feel like the topics have expanded. I feel like you can't hear this album and not hear growth. I love the first record, that's my baby, that's my child, and I feel like this one is a step in the right direction.
Like, I feel like on Sis., I was very much writing about this relationship that I really believed to be my version of a happy ending, but on Sis, He Wasn't The One, it's like a reality check [of], “Okay, this didn't work out. How do I heal? How do I cope?” Or not necessarily how do I even heal, but just being present and in that type of disappointment and just talking it out. For me, it's not a sad record, but it's a record that's more in alignment with where my head is now.
LUNA: I loved your Tiny Desk concert. Live music is special to me because of the relationship between the audience and performer, whereas digital streaming only lets the listener hear an artist’s output. I want to know, what is performing live to you? When you create music, do you also think of the live performance, or is it something different?
KIRBY: I feel like for me, I'm a much better live artist than I am even on record. So the live performance element is a game changer. The funny thing is, because we were in quarantine, a lot of these records, I think I wrote for the living room space. I wasn't thinking about touring. I was just thinking about what I felt in my home; what I wanted to listen to while I cooked. It kind of felt like, “What do I want to hear right now at this moment?” But I LOVE performing. That’s why I was pushing for songs like “Coconut Oil” to be on the record, because I feel like those uptempo records, man, those live drums — you can't feel all of that energy over a record … some things are just meant to be experienced!
But I think I'm going to go even more so into the thought process of “Is this a part where I feel like people will want to sing back?” after our tour, because I didn't get the experience to see how people responded to a record live, I'm kind of green when it comes to knowing what my audience likes to hear from me on a stage. So I'm excited to see how this tour changes how I record, because I think it's going to change how I write; it's going to change how I perceive a record to be single worthy. “Oh, this will sound bomb live, oh, we may record it this way live, but when we’re going on a tour let's do it acoustic.” … I'm going to gather so much data just by being able to perform every day in front of people and just seeing “Damn, I didn't think they would even respond to this, look how they're loving this.”
LUNA: The part of me that loves live music is connected to my upbringing in the church. So it's a spiritual experience listening to the choir and seeing how these people are moving, how they sing to you singing back to them.
KIRBY: It's a real thing. I mean, I feel like you hear that in my voice. Even when it's call and response or when it's breaking down to just claps, I can't escape my upbringing. There’s no music that probably can make you cry or be moved like gospel music.
You're in a choir of people singing the same words. It's powerful, it's angelic, it's a spiritual experience. So I always want to bring that feeling, that emotion, that warmth, that love into the music. And I'm glad to hear that you feel that when you listen.
LUNA: I'm excited for what you make after the tour, because then it's just going to be even more love.
KIRBY: Yeah, me too!
LUNA: I wanted to talk about the song, FourFiveSeconds. Hearing that song and watching that Grammy performance was something that made my sisters and I understand how emotion play into how you experience music. It made me wonder about Black people being connected to pop culture. It's not only a resistance to colonization, but it teaches us who we are in the world and what the world expects from us.
Those two threads: it’s connection to larger culture and a person’s feelings that really make it a timeless song. I'll be playing it for my kids and I hope they will play it for their kids. I would love to know what your definition of a timeless song is?
KIRBY: Man. I mean, I think you said it so nicely. Timeless surpasses my age; it surpasses trends. You know what I'm saying? For me, a timeless record has an emotion in it that you are going to feel today, three years from now, 20 years from now, 30 years from now. A lot of soul records are timeless because they build off an emotion that is not new under the sun. You're always gonna have somebody connect to a true story about heartbreak or a true story about falling in love.
That's why you can listen to “At Last” by Etta James right now and probably be 12 years old and be like, “Hmm, I never heard a record like this, but I understand it. I feel it.” I think what makes a record timeless is emotion because that's one thing that generation after generation does not change. Every generation knows what it feels like to fall in love. Every generation knows what it feels like to get their heartbroken.
I think sometimes you can hear a record like Aretha's [Respect]: “sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me” — now that language might not feel timeless, but that overarching theme of wanting respect as a woman makes that record timeless, because it's an emotion that I feel like us as women [are] never going to stop having to push for the need to be respected. That record is, man, almost 60 years old, and you can still play that and feel like, “Okay Aretha, I'm 25, but I definitely get what you mean.”
For me, timelessness is connected to the human experience; it’s happened before and it's going to continue after. And I think when you really just connect to the raw emotion of the human experience, you end up having a timeless record. Production, all of that is going to change, but the things that we make music with, those sounds, you know, it's engraved in us. Once you connect to that emotion, it doesn't get old. I think if you aim for the universal, if you aim for that which connects us instead of divides us, you're going to end up with a timeless record because essentially what we're all going through, the next generation after us [are] going to endure the same thing.
LUNA: Even when you think about the things that your parents played you and how it influences what music you like as an adult, I feel the universal nature of music.
KIRBY: Aw, man… It’s real, it’s real.
LUNA: I’ve seen a few of your TikToks! I loved them and I wanted to know how you like to use social media to connect to your audience and what you like about it?
KIRBY: Well, you know, social media changed my life. As much as I don't like the comparisons that inevitably happen because you're looking at other people's highlight reel, social media is the reason that I'm even on the phone with you today. It opened the door for me to be connected to people who would have never known there was a Black girl in Mississippi who wanted to be a singer songwriter. For me, I feel like social media is a blessing; it just depends on how you use it.
But I feel like if you really use it in a way to shine light on something that's overlooked the truth, what social media does is expose what mainstream media likes to hide. The people that go to the party and might be in the hallway instead of in the middle of the dance floor, it spotlights those people — the type of person that I am. Social media really gives you a chance to find your audience. And a lot of the times you realize there's more people like you than there aren't. And when you grow up in a small town, it's like, damn, you see so many of the same people you’re like, “There’s other girls out there like me.” ’Cause I didn't even know there were that many people in the world that didn't know how to twerk. I was surprised because on my timeline apparently everybody has a BBL and can dance.
It’s been such a connector — it's changed my life over and over again, whether it's Aunt Jemima, whether it's “Teach Me How to Twerk”, whether it's getting a publishing deal, whether it's tweeting John Legend to be on his tour and him responding. Social media is literally taking out the middleman to your dreams. And so for me, it's huge. And I think it's a blessing depending on how you choose to use it.
LUNA: I really enjoyed talking with you and learning more about your music and how you make it. Closing, I'd love to know what a defining album song or anything musical of your high school years was?
KIRBY: Wow. Yeah. She's a little older than you. (laughs)
I think I actually bought this in middle school though, Outkast: Speakerboxxx/The Love Below was huge for me in middle school. Let me tell you something, in high school baby, I was all on like Lil Webbie, Boosie, “Wipe Me Down.” I was just trying to turn up. (laughs) So I don't remember listening to too much.
Oh! Me and my best friend last night spent like 20 minutes on a FaceTime just going crazy over Paramore’s “Misery Business” and I had forgotten how those types of songs were such a big part of high school. I was like, “Whoa, Haley Williams was killer!” So when you go to the high school dance, I think about “Wipe Me Down,” I think about Lil Boosie. I think of Memphis music. I think of, you know, DJ Paul, Juicy J, Project Pat. I love hip hop rap music, cause I feel like that's what you call true rap music. Like I am from Memphis, so Yo Gotti, all the fire Southern rappers are a huge influence over my high school years. We were listening to Jeezy. That's really what I remember, like, driving my mom's Tahoe, thinking I was really doing something in a Tahoe, you know, with the windows turned down, listening to Young Jeezy. So yeah, I went through a huge rap and hip hop phase … Southern rap in particular, during high school, and I can't say one album defined me.
I was really late on my Baduizm train. I didn't really, really start to respect and love the maturity and the genius of that music till I got to college. I got to college and was like, “Oh shoot, this is me.” Like, I know what I want to dance to but this album right here, that's when it started to really be a game changer for me.
LUNA: I love that so much.
KIRBY: This has been fun! I love that you can see the live music and I hope that it translates when people come and see the show this fall.
LUNA: Yes, for sure! Have fun and good luck!
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