Q&A: Soon to be a Household Name, a kid named rufus Brings Their Full Self to Centerstage
THERE ARE ARTISTS AND THEN THERE ARE CHANGEMAKERS — and a kid named rufus is the latter. Undeterred by the tests of immigration, mental health struggles, and early adulthood, they are bringing their whole self into the recording studio. Wherever there’s a story, that’s where a kid named rufus will be. Born with a desire to help others and uplift their community, they’re the music icon Southeast Asia has been waiting for, and they haven’t even released their first album yet.
Having come to the United States from Malaysia, a kid named rufus has a perspective that needs to be heard. Their single “eighteen,” featuring Cole Bauer, is their first track off their upcoming album. From the looks of it, the record is going to be about everything from their journey to becoming an artist in the States to navigating the hardships of daily life. The thread that ties it all together is a kid named rufus’ intimate storytelling that rewrites the narrative of what it’s like to be an immigrant and young person in an unfamiliar place.
Currently, a kid named rufus studies music business at Syracuse University and is getting a taste of New York life beyond the classroom. Something that interests them is learning about cultures outside of their own and sharing their life experiences with others. For a kid named rufus, being a voice for those in the communities they identify with — LGBTQIA+, Southeast Asian, and people of color — is one of the best things about being an artist.
With their platform, they hope to make music that reaches people where they’re at, but more than that, a kid named rufus wants to use their influence to talk about critical issues facing immigrants today. It’s not just about the music — at this point, it’s personal. Last year, they had to halt all of their productions due to immigration visa complications and they couldn’t release music or do much of anything, for that matter. This year, it’s going to be different — a kid named rufus is going to be more vocal than ever. They have a powerful voice, and they will not be silenced.
Read below to learn more about “eighteen,” featuring Cole Bauer, and a kid named rufus’ story.
LUNA: Hey Rufus! It’s great to be here with you today. I wanted to start off by asking: How did you get started with doing music in the first place?
RUFUS: Well, I started singing when I was six years old. My mom got me into it growing up. She was big into getting me exposed to Indian fine art because that's my heritage. I’m half Indian and half Sri Lankan by ethnicity. And so I started out like that and I slowly moved over to teaching myself a little bit more about contemporary music. I taught myself contemporary vocals when I was probably around eight, and then I didn't really care much for music for most of my early teens. But then when I was 16 I had a really rough time in my life moving schools and with my mental health. At the time, I picked up this crappy acoustic guitar that I had in my room from Christmas when I was 12 and I taught myself how to play. I downloaded Fruity Loops [FL Studio], which is on the digital audio workstation because I was obsessed with EDM in my teenage years. I was like, “What does Martin Garrix use to make music?” and I started making house music. It was terrible, but I loved pop, and around the age of 17 I was using YouTube tutorials to teach myself how to produce and songwrite until I got to a point where I was comfortable with the music that I was writing. As I learned a little bit more about the release process and how to make my music sound more professional, I put out my first two singles in 2019.
LUNA: Can you tell us more about what it was like releasing those singles back in high school?
RUFUS: I was still a junior at the time, and that’s how it all started. I fell in love with the entire process. I was just this kid and then all of a sudden I was one of the first Spotify artists to come out of Malaysia. I was like, “Okay, it’s cool to have a bunch of friends that really want to get into this too, and now I want to do something for my community back home.” I've always wanted to live in New York City my whole life and I idolized Casey Neistat growing up, so I wanted to move to the US or somewhere close to New York City for school. I ended up finding out that I could do music business as a major, so I decided to go to school for that. And now I'm a junior at Syracuse.
LUNA: That’s a beautiful story of finding your passion. What was it like making that move to the East Coast from Malaysia?
RUFUS: Thanks, yeah. I made the move about two years ago now. Jan. 30 is actually my America-versary of when I moved in 2021. I feel like I've gotten the chance to learn about my artistry from being here. I found my own style and a process that works for me. Everything about me as an individual has changed so much from when I first started putting out music in Malaysia to today. I didn't even know I was queer until I moved here because I wasn't given the opportunity to explore a lot. I mean, I've changed so much as a person and it's so funny that you were playing “things will be okay” as I entered the interview because I love all the music that I've put out — it’s gotten me to where I am — but holy shit, I'm such a different person. And my music is so different from what's already out, and I’ve changed as a person.
LUNA: How have those changes shown up for you in recent years?
RUFUS: I was 18 when “graduation” came out and I’m turning 21 this year. I'm a junior in college and almost ready to graduate. At this moment, I'm doing a full year remote and I split my time between New York City and LA, but I'm in New York City presently. I’m really just kickin’ it, trying to make a career for myself and take this music thing seriously.
LUNA: Thanks for sharing with us about growth. Having immigrated here and then coming to the US and sharing your time between New York and LA, who would say your inspirations as an artist have been?
RUFUS: Well, it started off super top 40 pop when I started writing music for the first time, and I grew up listening to Ed Sheeran. He was the reason why I started picking up the guitar. Then I started listening to Lauv and I loved his whole project. I think “I Like Me Better” came out around the time when I started playing music when I was a junior in high school. I also listened to a lot of Alec Benjamin when “Let Me Down Slowly” came out. It was one of the best things ever, and I fell in love with him. I actually got to meet him in Singapore, which is super cool.
When I moved to New York I thought I was going to be a pop artist, and then I met all my classmates. At this point, we’ve become really close and everyone is such a great instrumentalist, and I learned so much about the actual music creation process and the arts of jamming and collaboration. I'd never played in a band ever in my life up until I moved here. There’s a genre back home called Malay rock that's prominent within Southeast Asia and originates south of Malaysia, so there’s a huge indie rock scene that comes from like where I'm from. I sort of rediscovered it when I moved here.
LUNA: It’s neat to hear about you reconnecting with your roots. How has making music been different as a student at Syracuse versus when you were doing it back home?
RUFUS: It’s been sick here and I’ve met so many talented musicians. There's a beautiful thing about being able to have those places to go out and vibe it out with other musicians. Before, I would put myself up in my bedroom, which felt limiting looking back. Having other people in the room is nice. I was doing everything in my bedroom because I was the only one I knew who was doing the music thing at my high school, and I was very introverted. I also didn't really know everything 100% by myself, and now I have a team. Now it's all over the place with who I’m listening to as well. I’m a die-hard Weezer fan and I love Alex G.
LUNA: On the topic of moving around and finding your creative process, how do you make your songs, and how is your style different now that you know you're in the States?
RUFUS: It’s very different. I think moving here and being exposed to more creatives and being put in rooms writing and producing for not only myself but for other people has been great, creatively. I've been exposed to the music industry and more professional settings and I’ve learned how to collaborate. The majority of this album started off as rough demos that I would do in my dorm room, and then I traveled quite a bit in 2021 and 2022 and wrote a lot in between. I would say I wrote 50% of it all on my own, but I also went to LA for it too.
LUNA: You mention relocating while you were putting this album together. How did that impact you career-wise?
RUFUS: In LA I was with my friends Mimica and Joe. It’s funny because I've known the two of them separately since working remotely during COVID and it was my first time being with them in person. We came up with stuff and I wrote one or two tracks there. I finished the majority of the album in Austin, Texas with Benji Cormack, who is one-half of slenderbodies. It was the most magical thing ever because my ex-girlfriend from Malaysia had introduced me to their music. And how I ended up in Austin to write that song was weird because I was going out with this girl from San Antonio, and then we broke up. So my manager, Josh, who lives in the US, picked me up from San Antonio and I stayed with him at his apartment for a week. That's where I met Benji, and we clicked. We wrote “stuck in San Antonio,” which is coming out later in the year. Since the first day we met, he’s been a mentor to me.
LUNA: With all that you’ve been through, in what ways has your songwriting changed?
RUFUS: I feel as far as songwriting goes, it always starts with me coming up with an initial idea so I can conceptualize what I want. I have a producer mindset where I'm unable to leave a room until it's exactly what I want. I'm able to do things on my own a little bit like I grew up doing, but if things aren't translating the way that I want them to I’ve been asking for feedback. It’s this back-and-forth process in terms of writing. I'm a concepts-first person and that’s deepened for me. I'm like, “Okay, let's write a song about this,” and then after that, I come up with a melody. I'm strong with melodies, and when we build a great concept, that's when I can start writing. That’s how I’ve done my EPs and albums, and what’s different now is that I really want to document my experience living in the United States as an immigrant. As a brown person and as someone who's never been here before it's important to me to write down every single thing.
LUNA: You're a great storyteller so I can see why you’d want to have everything in a song. As someone who’s transitioned from producing in Malaysia to becoming an artist in the US, how has your experience with media been different?
RUFUS: Timeline-wise, yeah, I've been in Malaysia most of my life. I was there for 18 years and I'm 20 turning 21, so this is my second year in the US. I'm a novice living here, right? I mean, I have an American accent because I went to a private school as a kid but that didn't prepare me for how different life is here. The way that media and entertainment work in America is not exactly like what I grew up with. Asia has always been a top market and I've been a producer so we're always fed stuff from the States and I’ve had a lot of pop influences, but a good portion of English content comes from North America, and there are censorship laws back home. Yeah, so rap isn't as big of a genre as it is in the US. And really, I don't think I was exposed to anything more apart from the rock that my parents used to listen to when they went to university like Guns N’ Roses, Led Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd.
LUNA: What are some things about Southeast Asia that you want the media to talk about more often in the States?
RUFUS: There’s so much culture there. I got my introduction to the arts through Indian fine art, but truthfully … I'm happy to admit I'm a very whitewashed person. My heritage influenced my sound but what Kuala Lumpur did for me is it gave me the voice I have as a person. When you live outside of the United States, people don't really understand what a powerhouse it is for the rest of the world. A lot of our news in Malaysia is sourced from American broadcasts and digital journalism. Also, a lot of the entertainment, film, TV, and music that we see comes from America, and American pop culture is fed to markets like Southeast Asia.
As a music business major, I’ve learned about a thing called trigger markets, which refer to developing territories that have large populations and newly found access to the internet. The two dominant territories are Latin America and Southeast Asia. We're always referred to as a trigger market, but I had access to the internet and I had the ability to educate myself on stuff. No one is telling our story. It’s 2023 and I have never seen a Malaysian person get recognition, probably up until last month when Michelle Yeoh won one of those Hollywood awards. That’s the first time in my whole life that I've even heard “Malaysia” on mainstream media. We haven’t been allowed to tell our stories because that’s how the world works.
LUNA: And it’s interesting you say that because I’ve noticed that trend with more inclusion of people of color in the media recently, namely Hollywood. How have you felt the impact of that lack of representation show up in your life when you were growing up in Southeast Asia?
RUFUS: From a young age, I've been a very vocal person. I’ve hated being silenced because I felt like that was my experience for most of my life in Malaysia. Freedom of speech is limited there and I was in a minority ethnic group. There aren't that many Indians in comparison to what the rest of the population looks like. That made me a social outcast because my Malay wasn’t good and people would look down on me. When I was in high school I started growing my hair and people would tell me they thought I was from a different race and that I was a foreign worker. It was like, had they not seen people like me before? Probably not. They would even question my citizenship and the legitimacy of whether I was Malaysian and it sucked. In the US it’s safe for me to be openly gay and queer. But if I were to do that in Malaysia it would be a death sentence. There are some queer artists still there like alextbh and I don't know how he's doing that. Honestly, props to him, because I would not have had the confidence and/or the education to be my true self had I still lived there. I'm in a very unique position now and I'm in a very unique position with new music here in New York City.
LUNA: Yeah, that’s quite a journey you’ve been on. Now that you’re in NYC, what’s your working relationship with your label been like?
RUFUS: I am in a phase where I am recovering from such a shit year, but it's not Nettwerk’s fault. It’s difficult to explain, but when you are not a citizen of the United States and when you're presented with an opportunity like this, you have to get the right immigration requirements to be able to exercise the activities that a company like Nettwerk Music would want you to do. What I mean by that is that I needed a visa to be able to continue living here and be a musician. Yes, I came here under a student visa, but I couldn’t sign with a record label under a student visa. I was at risk of being deported, and that's the reason why I didn't do anything last year. I even made a video about this ’cause I wanted to say something, but my last post on Instagram was on Jan. 1 and that's it. I didn't do any shows last year.
We put out one feature track with some good friends of mine, Agassi and Pluto Koi and pretty havoc. It was this Asian American thing and we wanted to do it. That part of things was really cool, but yeah, I went through a whole immigration petition process to get my work visa, which is specific to entertainment. That took 10 months — I started the visa petition process in January of 2022 and I only got the stamp on my passport. Being silenced all of last year really changed my outlook on life because I couldn't do anything. Even simple things like getting an on-campus job ... were out of reach for me. I couldn't do any sort of music activities and no one at school really understood what was going on. It was tricky. And that wore me out because what 19-year-old has the time or knowledge to deal with an immigration petition on their own?
LUNA: That’s unimaginable, Rufus, and a lot for one person to deal with alone. How did you get yourself through that difficult process so you could get back to the music?
RUFUS: My parents aren't in the US, right, so it was just me, my manager, and my immigration attorney. I was figuring things out for the first time and it was really tough. Even to this day, I don't really know how to tell people that and how to put that story out into the world because that’s the truth for so many of us here. This country is built on immigration and people don't understand that process and it infuriates me, especially in the music and entertainment industries. I don’t really see or get to interact with many people like me — I’m still an outlier here compared to everyone else. I wasn't born here and I'm not white. I’m Asian, non-binary, and I identify as queer. It’s been tough, so I’m glad to finally be able to put my album out and tell my story as authentically as possible. For me, there's no need to put a filter on shit anymore. People need to know these things, and that's what I'm trying to do. And I hope that with the culmination of what my work stands for — my very unique experience of moving to the US for the first time paired with everything that happened to me last year and how much growing up I had to do — that I can actually make a meaningful impact in the music industry, especially toward the communities like me in terms of race, ethnicity, and gender, you know, just all of the above.
LUNA: That makes a lot of sense. It's your story, and I think it goes back to you saying you didn't know how to say it, but just talking about it is saying everything. It’s more than enough. Speaking of growing up, can we talk a little about your new single, “eighteen,” featuring Cole Bauer, and the story behind that?
RUFUS: Yeah, for sure. So first things first, "eighteen” was written by Cole Bauer. It is his track — he wrote it and he shared it with me when we connected for the first time. You won’t believe this, but my friend Grace Gardner just texted me and she's literally with Cole right now. Strange how that matches up, right? Anyway, when I met Cole he had just moved to LA to check things out for a little bit. He is the sweetest human being I've ever met. I think his mom is some famous author or something of that sort. He's just the most creative and empathetic human. We wrote a bunch of songs and then he sent me the link to “eighteen” and I was like, “Oh my goodness, this is incredible!” The production has a chorus where you feel like you’re driving, and that's his. I really liked it and I felt it deep within myself. It's moments like those that are so powerful. Then I found out that Cole didn't want to do anything with it. I was like, “Can I please write a verse to it? I think we can make something really pretty.” He was like, “Okay, let's do it.”
LUNA: How did you two come together to produce the final version of the single?
RUFUS: I went to LA in October when I was in the early talks with Nettwerk about signing. Cole did the whole thing in, like, two hours and I wrapped my verse, then we added some production elements to make it a little longer. After that, I took it and did very minimal work. I just added the voice memo at the beginning. So when you hear the album, you'll hear [in] "eighteen” the voice memo of my mom calling me. Then we recorded it in the studio and he suggested doing an outro section. In it I talked about what moving across the world was like. It was the most stressful thing that I had ever done in my life and it was totally worth it.
It's special — Cole wrote that song about missing home and being a kid, and I really felt that. I cannot thank Cole enough. I hope he reads this because him giving me that song was probably one of the most meaningful things that anyone has ever done for me. It really completed the whole project, and everything about the way that it sounds from the lo-fi to the prettiness in the guitar and the clever lyrics… all of it was so perfect for what I was trying to achieve with this record. And the fact that he was willing to give that piece of his life to me so I could put it on my record means the world.
LUNA: Cole sounds like an awesome human and hopefully I will cross paths with him one day to be just as inspired. Everyone needs a Cole in their life, and you're lucky once you find one.
RUFUS: Also, while we're on the topic, I'll just go ahead and shout out Ross Newbauer, who's an incredible queer, non-binary mix engineer. I had the pleasure of being introduced to Ross through someone at school and they mixed the entire record, “eighteen” included. I also want to shout out Donna Valencia, who is a mastering engineer at Sterling Sound. She mastered the record, including “eighteen,” and it was sick. I wanted to have more queer people on the project because I don't really know engineers who are women or identify as queer.
LUNA: With the record coming out shortly here, what are some things you want people to know about it? What do you hope they get out of it after listening?
RUFUS: I hope they listen and when I say listen, I'm not talking about literally listening to my work because I mean, shit, that's like what my team is for. I want people to listen to the lyrics and understand my story. I want them to acknowledge the things I talk about, especially when it comes to my mental health or sharing my struggle with trying to be an adult for the first time, or when I talk about moving across the world. I want people to understand that this is my story. It's unique, and it's something they should pay attention to not because it’s mine but because it’s the reality for a lot of people that live in this country. In this album, I'm just channeling that into what I know best, which is music.
LUNA: Yeah, and thank you for doing that. We need more people who are going to talk about immigration so the conversation keeps on going. At the end of the day, how do you want to be remembered, not just as an artist, but as a human?
RUFUS: That's probably one of the best questions anyone's ever asked me, I'm not even going to lie. Yeah, I don't want to be remembered just for my music. I want to be remembered for the person that I am. Music is a part of me that I love, but it's not me. I want to be remembered as someone that sparked the movement for more diverse voices in the entertainment industry. I'm lucky to be in this weird limbo where there is a progression in entertainment when it comes to having more diverse voices in it, but at the same time, it's still predominantly white, classist, straight, male, and heteronormative. I hope that queer people of color like me won’t have to work so hard to be seen. I hope that I'll be one of the few, like Michelle Yeoh, that people can look to. I really pride myself on that, and that's my biggest goal because, especially where I come from, there aren't that many people who are recognized for what they’re doing. The biggest Malaysian musician is Yuna, who is actually a mentor of mine, and the biggest Malaysian actress is Michelle Yeoh. So yeah, I don't want to be remembered as a musician. I want to be remembered as an advocate.
LUNA: And I think you do that a little bit every time you have an interview when you talk about your story and what your life is like now. Are there any social organizations that you're personally interested in that you’d want to promote?
RUFUS: It's really tough because I wish there were better resources when it comes to immigration and immigrant rights in the US. Unfortunately, there aren’t, and the process is so privatized. If there's anything in the future that I come across, I'd love to share that at some point. But the first association that I want to promote is The Trevor Project. I know plenty of queer people who have used their platform when they have struggled the most. From my understanding, The Trevor Project is the only LGBTQIA+-focused suicide line. And I think what they're doing is important. I know we're making big strides when it comes to mental health, but to be real, the national suicide prevention hotline sucks. I've tried calling that line so many times and no one picks up — it’s terrible. So The Trevor Project is doing something that can save lives, and that matters a lot.
I know a lot of my listeners are based in Asia and the two biggest hotlines that people need to know and need to put in their contacts are the Samaritans and Defenders. They're not in every part of Southeast Asia, but if there’s not one, there's typically the other. If you literally just search for them in your country, you should be able to find the call center. Most of them are open 24 hours and I know the Samaritans does in-person sessions now, which is really great. The thing with Asia, unfortunately, is that we're not there yet when it comes to having those conversations about mental health and mental illnesses. So, for the people back home, just write down those two names and remember that you can call them. I personally used Defenders when I was back home because I couldn't afford therapy.
LUNA: That's super important, and thank you for looking into those groups because I know that's going to be really helpful to readers to know those names. When nobody’s watching, who is a kid named rufus?
RUFUS: A kid named rufus when no one's watching loves to sleep and loves food — I have a pizza right here, actually. A kid named rufus loves to travel. It's my guilty pleasure — whenever I have the cash I will dip and I'll go someplace else for a weekend. A kid named rufus is a relatively normal person. Music is a big part of who I am, but it's not my entire identity. I like having interests outside of music; I think it's healthy for me. Yeah, I'm a very chill and relaxed queer person that loves normal stuff like thrift shopping, and I'm a bit of an environmentalist myself. My new apartment is honestly ... kind of a shitshow, but we're getting a compost bin and a recycling bin soon so that's going to be good. A kid named rufus also loves to give back to the community. Charity work is very important. And a kid named rufus is a shoulder that you can lean on. I’m also a chatty person and I like making people's days better, even if I'm not necessarily at 100%.
LUNA: Oh, that's awesome. I’ve heard something about doing the opposite action. For instance, making someone else happy or being around someone else and not making it worse. And then it actually makes you feel a little bit better, so I see you doing that and that's a great coping mechanism. What is something that you wish more people knew about you or that you want people to know?
RUFUS: Definitely my gender and sexual identity because that's a more recent thing I'm talking about with this project. It's also significant because this is the first time I'm actually coming out as non-binary. I changed the pronouns on all my socials and press to say “they” and not “him.” I still get misgendered and it's super early for me, but I would love to be an androgynous-looking person at some point. The thing about being non-binary is that it's a long process and a lot of self-work. Gender-affirming surgeries that people might consider — the augmentation that I might consider — take time and costs a lot, so this is a journey that's new for me and something that I'm exploring. And I want people to know that I'm non-binary and queer and I'm very proud of it. I'm not afraid. And if people have a problem with that, it’s on them.
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